Charles: Hi, I'm Charles Parker, and this is the "Art of Retirement" podcast, the show about life in retirement and the challenges, opportunities, and unique stories related to it.

Barbara: That's when I had the opportunity to go to Africa, to go to Tanzania to work as a teacher at an orphanage there, and I loved it. That was, to me, a highlight of anything I have ever done. It was wonderful.

Charles: Today, we're speaking with Barbara, who quickly found that her happiness in retirement came from giving back to others.

Barbara: I was wife and mother, or stay-at-home mom, I should say, until my youngest got old enough to be able to come home from school pretty much on her own. There were older children in the house at the time, so she was able to be a little bit independent. And then I went back to work.

Charles: And what were you doing in that time?

Barbara: I had been out of the workforce for so long. I had been a statistician before I got married. And after so many years of being at home and being totally out of touch with the working world, I started back as a temp working for...I don't even know whether they're still in existence, but Kelly Girls. A woman that I worked for asked if this is what I wanted to do for the rest of my career, my working life, and I told her, "No, not really." And she encouraged me to take some classes, to go back to school at night, or weekends. She gave me more complex assignments, and basically, I got my self-confidence back. I felt that, "Okay, I can do this," kind of thing.

And then went to a full-time job as a secretary, but went to a full-time job, continued to take classes at night in administration and management methods, that kind of thing, and I ended up being an assistant to the city manager in a city, well, in Dana Point in California. And I did that until I retired.

Charles: Okay, so when did you start thinking about retirement, at what age and why were you thinking about it?

Barbara: Well, actually, retirement was sort of forced on me. I just felt I would work until I was 65, which was normal retirement age. But my husband became very ill. And when I was... I'm trying to think of how old I was, in my late 50s, actually, he got to the point where either we needed to hire a full-time caregiver for him, or I needed to stay home and take care of him. And I thought I really did not want to turn my paycheck over to a caregiver where I would be out of the house all day and someone else would be doing that.

So, I took a very early retirement and stayed at home, took care of him through some serious surgeries and recuperation. But it was good. Quite honestly, it impacted my retirement because leaving early, I was not able to build up as much into a retirement account because he couldn't do that because he was on disability, and I couldn't do that because I had to leave work at an earlier age than I had planned. So, that impacted my retirement plans. But I wouldn't have changed. I mean, it was just something that was necessary for me to do.

Charles: So, it was your husband's illness that led you to retire?

Barbara: Yes.

Charles: And I'm sorry about that. So, you mentioned that you couldn't build up a retirement fund, yeah, you weren't paying into Social Security because you were, of course, staying home and taking care of him. Were there any other sacrifices that you had to make when you had to leave the workforce to care for him?

Barbara: No, not really. Basically, we had enough to live on. It certainly did not impact our well-being in the sense of financially. We could still afford just the house and cars, you know. I mean, we could take care of ourselves. It was not being able to set money aside for retirement that impacted how I live today. But again, that's a choice that you make, and I don't regret it.

Charles: Right, So, can you tell me a little bit about what those years were like? I mean, I am reading here you moved to Maine within that period, too, so I assume you went with him?

Barbara: We did. Oh, yeah. In 1993, he had had a lung transplant, and he was waiting for that transplant for several years, which was the time that I stayed home with him. And he had that in '93. And at that time, it was considered experimental surgery. He was one of very, very few people who ever had a successful lung transplant. And by the next year, we realized living in Dana Point or living in...actually, we lived in Laguna Beach in Southern California was very, very expensive. It was really more than we can comfortably think about doing.

So, I had been to Maine. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Our daughter went as an exchange student to the University of Maine, and we came up to visit her. We just enjoyed the lifestyle here. And it's a beautiful part of the country. And when we had to leave Southern California for financial reasons, we decided that this might be a really good place to settle. And I have been here now, it'd be 20 years come to think of it, actually. And didn't really put a number to that before. But I haven't regretted it. It's a place I'm very happy. I'm very comfortable.

Charles: Okay. So, I mean, you said you were able to afford everything, but were there ever any concerns about money going through all of that?

Barbara: Yeah, we had to change some of the things that we did. I can't do everything that I wanna do financially. I can't travel the way I'd like to, but I still do travel. The other side of being able to travel is I don't have all of the bells and whistles on my television. I don't have all of the extras, you know. I've cut back on a lot of things, not where it seriously impacts my life. And being able to watch whatever is on HBO really doesn't bother me that much. There's very few things I probably watched anyway, but I do that. And the trade-off is that I can afford to travel. So, I'm not hurting financially in the sense that I don't know how to pay my bills because I do know that. That, I can very comfortably do.

Charles: Great.

Barbara: I just to be very aware of what my priorities are.

Charles: So, budgeting is very important, right?

Barbara: For budgeting, absolutely. And as I said, I don't do a lot of things. I don't go out to dinner several times a week. I don't go to the movies a lot. But again, that to me isn't a sacrifice because I'm doing it so that I can afford to travel. That's my first love. And, you know, everything is a balance in life. And that's my choice. If the day comes and I don't travel, or I can't because of my age or my ability, whatever, and I can't travel, then I'll rethink some of the things that I don't do. I'll go out to dinner more often here. I'll, you know, go to a symphony more often, I'll do some of the things that I don't do now and not travel. So, as I said, I'm not hurting financially where I'm wondering how I'm going to be able to pay my heating bill or where my next groceries are coming from. That, I can easily do. It's the extras that I've had to give up, but for, to me, a very good reason.

Charles: Yes. I'm reading here. So, it says you were a teacher by education. Is that right?

Barbara: That's right, by education. My degree is in childhood education and English literature. But when I was in college, when I first went into student teaching, and I don't even know was it even that anymore, but, you know, the semester before you graduated, you went into a classroom, worked with a teacher, and got a feel for what it was really like to be in a classroom. And I discovered that I couldn't do it. I don't know why. I was terrified of facing a classroom, a class of students. I just could not do it. And I realized just was not good for me emotionally, and it certainly wasn't going to be good for any students that I had. So, I graduated with my degree, but I never used it, or I didn't use it until almost 50 years later. There was a reason that I got it. It just took me 50 years to realize what the reason was. That's all.

Charles: And that's when... Can you tell me some about that?

Barbara: That's when I had the opportunity to go to Africa, to go to Tanzania to work as a teacher at an orphanage there, and I loved it. So, that was, to me, a highlight of anything I have ever done. It was wonderful.

Charles: Fantastic.

Barbara: Fell in love with the students, fell in love with the country, with the people that were there. And, you know, I never would have been able to get if I hadn't gotten this degree and then set it aside for almost 50 years before I was ready to use it.

Charles: Do you think it was the time or the situation that was different? Or what was it that made it such a difference from the first time you taught?

Barbara: First time, for a lot of personal reasons. I was socially, and when I say socially, I'm talking about interacting with other people, I found that very difficult to do. I just could not face... I wasn't comfortable. I mean, I was not sure of myself, I had no self-confidence. I could not face a group of eight-year-olds. They terrified me. And in 50 years, I gained enough self-confidence to be able to face anybody, you know. I found out that I really could do some things that I never thought that I could. And when I was 22 and graduating and ready to teach, I just did not have the self-confidence. And I know why, but it was something that I couldn't overcome at that time. And then it all fell into place. It took a long time, but it was worth it. It was worth the wait.

Charles: At what point within your retirement, like, when did you go to Tanzania?

Barbara: Oh, I went to Tanzania after my husband died. He died, well, several years after we moved to Maine. And I really felt that I needed to do something with myself. I mean, my children were all grown, independent, did not need me for anything, did not live close. And my husband, as I said, he had died, and I just thought this was a time for me.

And at the same time, a friend, a woman that I had met several years earlier on a trip to Nepal actually, we had taken this tour together. And I had told her at the time. We were touring a children's hospital in Kathmandu. And this is not a children's hospital you and I would think of. I mean, it was a third-world country children's hospital.

Charles: Sure.

Barbara: And they got the best care they could, but they were so limited in what resources they had. And I actually mentioned to my friend that, you know, someday I'd love to be able to volunteer in a third-world country in a hospital just taking care of children, you know, holding them when they cry or something. And several years later, she called me and she said, "Do you remember when you said that?" She said, "I have an opportunity here." And her daughter works at this orphanage and said they were looking for teachers and wondered whether I would be interested in doing it.

So, I investigated, checked with the State Department. I really don't want to go to a country where there is a war or, you know, it's dangerous. I don't wanna be a target for kidnapping or a ransom or anything else. So, I checked it all out. Tanzania is a safe country. This orphanage is in a beautiful area. And so I went and spent about six months over there, came home, enjoyed it so much that I turned around, went back again for a second time, and just enjoyed the children tremendously. I taught three to five-year-olds. And they did not speak English and I did not speak Swahili, but we did get along and they learned how to color and I learned how beautiful they were. And now they're in high school, which is pretty amazing. So, really enjoyed it.

Charles: Yeah, sounds like a very transformative time. And you'd mentioned earlier that your husband had experimental surgery that I hadn't realized he passed on, I'm so sorry.

Barbara: Well, yeah, he had a long tough struggle, and it was time that he had to let go. So, it was good. He wasn't getting any better, and he wasn't going to get any better. So, anyway, I'm being very philosophical.

Charles: And that's okay.

Barbara: Ten years...actually, it's more than that, 15 years after the fact, but, you know, life goes on. And this was my turn to just think about what I wanted to do. And I haven't regretted that either. I mean, this, to me, was just an incredible experience. And that's when I learned also that I could stand in front of a group of people and give a talk about the children there and have a slideshow and raise funds for the orphanage. And I did that several times in California, actually, and places all in Maine and different areas. And it was wonderful. I gained a great deal out of it for my own personal satisfaction, my own personal growth.

Charles: Altruism can be very beneficial to the soul. That's true. What advice would you give to someone who might be going through the same thing you are going through with your husband? A difficult time with a family member that's hurting or...

Barbara: Do what you have to do. For some people, my decision would not have been right. They would have been better off paying someone to come in and take care of a spouse who is ill while they worked. That wasn't a right decision for me. But people are different. I could not go to work every morning knowing that there would be somebody else in the house taking care of him. So, it's important that I was able to personally be there and to do that. And to take care of yourself. I had children who when he was quite ill, he could not be left alone, they arranged amongst themselves where each one of them would take a week. And consecutively, they would give me a month away so that I could get away for a month while they stayed with my husband and took care of him and relieves me of that every single day no matter what the stress of taking care of him. And that was a huge help to me. I mean, I can't express how much that meant.

Charles: Asking for help when you need it. Yeah.

Barbara: Yeah. And I think, to me, the most important thing is the caregivers got to set aside the time to take care of themselves, whether they hire a sitter to come into the house for a few hours a day or whatever. You need a break. You can't do that 24 hours a day. It's just not possible. So, all in all, it worked out very, very well for me. It was not easy. It was very difficult, but I gained a lot from it. And I feel I can probably handle most things that come my way now where I never felt that way before.

Charles: Yeah. Yeah, I see here even you're talking about all the altruistic things you're doing but you volunteered at the music school and a local food pantry there as well?

Barbara: That's right. I do. And I ended... Just recently, something that's totally surprised me is some of the women in the community knit. And I asked them if they could knit hats that we would give to charitable organizations where children might not have warm hats in the wintertime. And we started doing that. And so far, we have collected hundreds and hundreds of hats. I've taught women,. They come to the house and we sit and we knit, or we teach other women how to knit. So, it's become a community project, which I never expected. All I was doing was making hats to keep little kids warm, and that worked out really...it worked out very well.

Charles: So, now it's become a social activity that gets your community together and gets people together.

Barbara: Yes. Actually important to everyone. It's not just important to me. I don't think we're made to live totally isolated. We need social contact. We need people to talk to.

Charles: We definitely do. Yeah.

Barbara: And this has created a good circle of friends for me. And as I said, something totally unexpected. And I think, especially as you get older, when you're not locked into a house and taking care of family and working and you have free time, you've got to be open to things that come along. And I think a lot of people aren't. They're not willing to go out and take a risk.

Charles: Right. It can be scary, I guess.

Barbara: It's scary and it also is difficult because you get very comfortable. You know, you do the same things every day, you get very comfortable with that. And, you know, do I really want to go out tonight to socialize somewhere? Well, it may be you may have to push a little bit to get yourself out, but you feel better when you come home after you've done something like that.

Charles: What's one of the most enjoyable things you found in retirement? It sounds like you travel quite frequently. You learned that you could actually teach, which is fantastic. Are there any other things that you really enjoy?

Barbara: I think probably the thing that I enjoy the most is my traveling. I go to Portugal every year. Winters are cold in Maine, and they get gray and a lot of snow, and by the middle of January, I'm ready to leave for a while, and I'll do that for several months and stay over there. And I guess the most enjoyable thing is knowing that I am 83 and I could still do that kind of thing, and I'm very pleased about that. It's not all my doing. I mean, I guess I inherited good genes or something, I don't know, but the idea that I am able to make the decision to go to Portugal. I am able to go out to the... The independence, I guess, is what I enjoy as much as anything. And I'm fortunate again...

Charles: Right. Not being tied to a schedule.

Barbara: Not being tied to a schedule, I have some scheduled things that I've got to do, like I do work at the food pantry a couple of times a week, and that's a commitment. I don't have to do that. That's not something that I depend on for income. It's all volunteer work. But it's the independence of knowing I can either do that or not do it. I can do it if it pleases me. If it doesn't, then I don't have to do it. And I'm also fortunate that my children are also independent and don't need me. I don't have to stay here to pick up a child that might be in trouble with something or might need some assistance. I can pretty much make my own decisions. And, to me, that's important.

Charles: Now, I've never been. What is it about Portugal that draws you there every year?

Barbara: First of all, where I stay in Portugal is a small town on the water, which I love, and it's the people. The Portuguese people are incredibly friendly. I've made some very good friends over there. Traveling by myself, people will come and just talk. If you're with a group, someone outside that group doesn't come and talk to you, so you don't meet new people. But when you're traveling alone, people tend to come up and ask how you are, what you're doing, whether you're enjoying yourself, and there's conversation. And they enjoy life, they enjoy socializing, they enjoy going out to dinner, even if it's a simple meal out. They are just very comfortable people to be with. And if I'm lost or confused, and I don't speak Portuguese, there's always somebody there to help. They not only tell me where I should be going, but they will take me to the corner and point to where I should be going. I mean, they go out of their way to make me feel very welcome.

Charles: Wow. Sounds like a wonderful place.

Barbara: It is. It makes me feel very good to be there. I enjoy it tremendously. I come back the middle of March, and by the beginning of April, I'm already counting the days to going back.

Charles: Is there anything about retirement that is just something that is not enjoyable at all?

Barbara: Yeah, being alone, I mean, not having anyone to talk to in the evenings. During the day, I can keep busy, but evenings are lonely because I don't have that feeling of I've been with people all day so I come home and I just want to be alone. There's no one here to talk to. If I go to a symphony, I can talk to the people that I go with, but on a superficial level, it would be nice to have somebody to come home to and sit down and really be able to talk to someone. I think conversation and sociability of that is my most difficult thing, the thing I find most difficult to deal with.

Charles: Okay. Could a phone call alleviate that, do you think? A phone call to a friend or a family member.

Barbara: It's not the same.

Charles: All right.

Barbara: I don't think.

Charles: As being in the same room. Yeah, I see what you mean.

Barbara: As sitting there face-to-face and having a face-to-face conversation. To me, it's very different.

Charles: True.

Barbara: And I miss that. I miss having someone to cook dinner for, you know. Cooking for one, I'm fine. I enjoy cooking, I do it, but it would be nice to be able to share dinner with someone at home. So, these are my...in the whole scheme of things. It's not a woe is me kind of complaint. There's times I'd love to be able to sit and talk to somebody about a television show that I'm watching or whatever.

Charles: Okay. How has retirement changed over the years for you from say right after your husband passed, let's say to now? What has changed about it?

Barbara: I guess what has changed since he died is I have discovered my own freedom. And that's probably not the right word. It sounds like I've been released from a prison or something. And I don't mean that. While he was alive, I had responsibilities that I had to do. I had to take care of him. There were just things that needed to be done. And it took a long time for me to realize that I can do things on my own, that I don't have to think about someone else right now. Again, that sounds selfish, but I can think about what's important to me, rather than thinking about what I need to do. And I think that's the biggest change,

Charles: Caring for someone who's terminally ill is a large responsibility and it can cause a lot of stress, and I think it is sort of a release. And I don't think you're being selfish. I think I understand what you're saying.

Barbara: No, it is difficult. And you don't want to not do it. You do what's important to you. But then when you don't have that 24-hour-a-day necessity to be there, to do something, then it is a relief, it's a freedom, and I have enjoyed that freedom. I have enjoyed the fact that I can go to the symphony if I want, I can go out to dinner, I can travel, I can do whatever I want to do without having to think I have to get home because it's time for something. You know, I get home when I'm ready, but not for someone else, it's for me.

Charles: Okay, well, so it sounds like you had a big surprise in learning that you could teach children in Tanzania. Were there any other things you discovered about yourself after retirement, things that surprised you or were exciting?

Barbara: I found after I retired that I could do things that I never thought I could, such as going to Tanzania, totally away from family, no way to get back quickly. We lived in a community with no electricity, couldn't drink the water, no hot water, everything had to be... Anyway, it was very primitive. No newspapers, no radio access, no television, no computers. It was out away from what we might consider civilization. And when I got back, I was asked to do some speaking to raise some money for the orphanage. And I did that. And I found out that I can do that kind of thing. And I enjoy it. I thrive on it. I love it. If someone gives me a microphone, I'm happy. Microphone in the spotlight is even better. But, you know, I just found I could do this. I never knew that I could do that before.

Charles: Well, I think if it's something that you feel strongly about, I think anybody could get up there and make a point about how important it is to everyone, right?

Barbara: Yes, yeah. And I loved the children so much that I was delighted to be able to do that for them. And I think I just gained self-confidence that I never had when I was working. And why that is, I couldn't tell you. I couldn't analyze that. But I feel much better about myself. I feel more confident. I feel that I could handle most things that come along. And I don't think I had that confidence before I retired.

Charles: Okay, well, so what advice would you give anyone who might be retiring in the near future?

Barbara: Develop a passion for something, develop a passion for reading or for knitting or for travel or for gourmet cooking, whatever, doesn't matter, but something to make sure that you get out of bed in the morning, and you look forward to the day. Volunteer work. There are never enough volunteers to be able to do all the work that's needed. And if that becomes your passion, then you look forward to every day because you're gonna be doing something that's gratifying to yourself, that's fulfilling. I mean, I don't want to develop a passion for judge duty at 3:00 in the afternoon. I mean, that's not the kind of passion I'm talking about, but the passion that gets you out and makes you feel good about what you're doing.

Charles: That's something...

Barbara: I think that's crucial. I've seen people who retire and basically, television and meals are their sole interest in life. And this is such a waste. I know that there are people who can't do much more than that, and that's totally different. But I'm talking about people who can and choose not to. And I think we all need to feel involved in something, whether you're retired or whether you're working or what it is. You need to feel that energy that you get from getting up and really looking forward to doing something worthwhile. I think that's critical in anybody's life.

Charles: Thanks so much for listening to the show this week. You can subscribe to our program at iTunes or on our website at allworthfinancial.com. If you have a retirement story you'd like to share, you can also write us at the artofretirement@allworthfinancial.com. I'm Charles Parker, and you've been listening to the "Art of Retirement" podcast from Allworth Financial.

Man: This podcast has been brought to you by Allworth Financial, a registered investment advisory firm with the Securities and Exchange Commission.