Charles: Hi, I'm Charles Parker, and this is "The Art of Retirement" podcast, the show about life and retirement and the challenges, opportunities, and unique stories related to it.

Today, we're speaking with Ron and Darlene, who had a somewhat straightforward plan for their retirement, but quickly learned they could be more flexible. Darlene, it sounds like you worked in the computer software as a computer software engineer. Is that right?

Darlene: I was in the software industry in multiple... I wasn't an engineer, I actually did project planning, product development manager through strategic alliances operations. So, it was always for a software company in the Bay Area.

Charles: Yeah. I see a lot of big names, IBM, Lagado, McAfee for about 37 years. And Ron, you owned a car restoration business?

Ron: Yes.

Charles: Fantastic. So, when did you guys start talking about retirement?

Darlene: Oh, gosh. You know, I think it was like our late 40s. We started talking just kind of fun talk like, what-if scenarios, what if you won the lottery, what would you do? And then it got more serious of discussions about, well, actually, what are we going to do?

Charles: Okay. So, as far as age, what were you thinking of? What age were you thinking to retire?

Darlene: We thought originally 52 to 55, and that was until the dot-com crash happened. And then we had to wake up and look at things a little differently.

Charles: Oh, yeah. So, what led to your decision to retire?

Ron: Well, mine was when I was working for the city of Sunnyvale, I was starting to look at how the contract negotiations and stuff were going. And I could see, at some point, they were gonna start taking more and more away. You know, I think because the public was looking at... you know, the public retirement system and saying they were making too much money off it. So, I decided it was a good time to start looking at retirement. So, I think it was 62.

Darlene: But two things kind of happened at the same time, which was, they offered, through Ron's work, you could buy years, which would allow him to retire earlier. And then I had just gotten to the point where stress in my job, we just decided just wasn't worth. We would rather retire with less money than keep going the way we were.

Charles: So, it was a decision of feeling overworked, and the city job was just... Well, you felt like you were pushed toward it, is that right?

Ron: Yeah. The main thing is, is I could tell by the retirement benefits, you know, they were gonna get taken away. So, I decided to retire with full benefit. So, it was a good time to get out.

Charles: Okay. So, is that about the time that the concept of retirement became real?

Ron: Yes, actually, it happened probably within six months. We really started talking about it. At that point, Darlene and I had gone to the, you know, CalPERS, and we actually sat down, made an appointment with them, and started figuring out logistically when was a good time to leave. So, I think we went in, in the summer when I was 60 years old. And I think by December of that year, I was retired.

Charles: And Darlene, how about you?

Darlene: I kept working after that. It worked out well that he could retire, and then I kept working. So, it let us continue to put some money away. What we did is we had built our house up here in Angels Camp. It's about two and a half hours away from the Bay Area. And for 10 years, we drove every Thursday night up here, just to get away. And then finally, I was able to work remotely for a couple of years and then transition into full-time.

Charles: You said you started talking about retirement around your 40s, planning to retire around 52 to 55. And then you said the dot-com crash, that was one of major setbacks. And then you guys retired in your early 60s. So, were there other sacrifices that you made along the way in order to have the retirement you both dreamed of?

Ron: I would say not. We didn't sacrifice too much because both of us were making good money. So, we lived a pretty good lifestyle up until... But the good thing is, is through Darlene's business and through my retirement system, we were able to put money away, you know, all through that process. So we didn't sacrifice too much.

Darlene: Yeah. I would say, just readjusting a retirement budget expectation since we weren't gonna have what we originally thought. We actually practiced our retirement budget for two years before we actually retired. And I will say that we did not do well the first year, we did better the second year. And then we still couldn't quite make it under that budget, but we retired anyway.

Charles: Well, transitioning is always difficult, even if it's just a job or a new location. That makes sense. So, did you have any reservations or concerns as retirement got closer? It sounds like Darlene kept working after Ron retired, but were there any things you were worried about?

Darlene: My only reservation really was worrying about the money because you just don't know. You think you have enough, but you don't know, for sure. I had no reservations about, "Oh gosh, what are we gonna do to keep ourselves busy?" I mean, that was never, ever a concern at all.

Charles: How did you keep yourselves busy? I mean, it sounds like you did a lot of planning in your job. Did that transition into your retirement? And Ron, do you still work on car restoration or...?

Ron: Well, I kind of dabble in it. I don't do that as a job. So, it's a lot of physical labor. And I got to the point to where it affects my golf game, so.

Charles: You don't wanna mess with the golf game, gotta keep under par.

Ron: No.

Darlene: You know what? We, like I said, had no problem keeping busy. We made a point to not make any commitments for the first year of retirement so that we could fully transition. So, we played golf. Well, we learned how to play tennis. We did a little bit of volunteer work, but we were able to go and see our kids and grandkids whenever we wanted. And we traveled a bit. And we just kind of got used to being able to do what we wanted to do when we wanted.

Charles: Was the transition easier or more difficult than you imagined? You mentioned that the money was your only concern, but...

Darlene: Yeah. And, you know, it wasn't a difficult transition. We kept hearing from people, "Oh my gosh. You know, it was really hard to transition into retirement," or, you know, "got bored and had to find things," we never, ever... Matter of fact, we're back to trying to keep things balanced so that we're not overdoing things which we never thought we'd have a problem with. But, yeah, it's just, like I said, I think the budget has been the biggest challenge. And not that we have to do without, it's just, we have to prioritize more. We have to plan ahead. We have to agree on what the priorities are and what we want to do or not do.

Charles: Yeah. I think that's many people's concern is that they'll be bored or not have enough to do. It's great that you guys keep busy. What would you have done differently if you had a choice in the transition?

Darlene: I would have started much earlier contributing to my 401(k) retirement plans. You know, when you're young, retirement is so far off, you know, it's just not a priority. I wished that I would've started immediately.

Charles: Ron?

Ron: Yeah, the good thing is when I went to work for the city of Sunnyvale, because I had put 20 years with the city while I owned my car restoration business. Unfortunately, in that type of business, it's really hard to put money away. So, I agree with Darlene, I would've probably not fooled around some... You know, in your 20s and 30s, there's a lot going on, you know, it's like every, every weekend with your friends or camping, or you're always active and I could have postponed a few of the events instead of going every weekend. So, yeah. I think, in my business, I would've spent a little more time, you know, figuring out how to retire. But, yeah, that was the only part of that business that I regretted.

Charles: So, other than contributing to your 401(k), or possibly buying bonds or stocks, or putting money away, what other advice would you give to someone transitioning into retirement?

Darlene: You know, one thing for us is, when you're planning your retirement or what you think you're going to be doing and spending your time doing, it might change. But it changed in a good way, you know, not a bad way. So, I would say, be flexible and talk a lot about priorities and what you wanna do just to make sure you're on the same plan. But be open to things that change. We're going through a major change right now. We are selling our big house that we have downsizing. We bought a motor home because we enjoyed our traveling, and we're now able to do that when we want. But we couldn't afford to keep the big house and do the motor home. So, we decided, you know, it was more important for us to be able to have that flexibility. So, we're in the middle of doing a major change.

Charles: How has retirement changed from the first day that you retired to now?

Ron: Well, for me, it has got so much better because we're a lot more relaxed. The stress of the time of retirement to now, it's like we understand we made the right decision. And, like Darlene said, we're able to, basically, lock up the house and go see grandkids, or see kids, or decide we want to go do something with friends. Where before, it was more on a planning part of it. So, yeah, the flexibility for me to be able to hang out with the kids is pretty good.

Darlene: And kind of jokingly, but seriously, I still, to this day, enjoy not having to wake up with an alarm clock.

Charles: That makes sense. So, I got a question since I'm a little ways off. I remember when I transitioned from, say, high school to college, that was huge for me. It caused a lot of stress, it made me very anxious. Could you relate that to retirement? Is it that big of a transition or bigger for someone who might not be as close to retiring?

Ron: Yeah, actually that could relate very closely because, you know, I mean, we understand when we were that age, it's like, "Oh my God." You know, high school was such a fun time in your life. And all of a sudden, you're realizing, you know, this is going to be a major transition for the rest of my life. So, yeah. I think that's a good analogy because it does put a little bit of stress on your heart.

Charles: Yeah, I can see that.

Ron: Yeah. But now that you can realize that... Well, especially in the area you're in, you realize that there's life on the other side.

Charles: So, I'm reading here, I have a little synopsis of you guys. I see that Darlene volunteers at a senior center, you learned wine tasting, which sounds like a lot of fun. What other things do you partake in? What other activities do you partake in on a regular basis? Or can you elaborate on the wine tasting or the senior center activities?

Darlene: It started out, we became wine club members, met the owners, the winemaker, became friends. They needed a little help. And so I started working one day a week in the tasting room. And then all of a sudden now, a year later, I'm managing the tasting room. So, never thought in a million years that's what I'd be doing when I retired, but it just happened. And I love it.

Charles: Fantastic. It sounds like some of your work life has bled into your retirement life, planning and managing.

Ron: Yeah. She couldn't help herself.

Charles: That's okay.

Darlene: You know what's kind of neat is you take things that you're good at, and then it might transition into a completely different role or job in retirement than you had in your work years.

Charles: Certainly.

Ron: She has less time to manage me now.

Charles: Oh, no. So, we've talked a lot about what's changed since retirement. Has anything remained the same?

Ron: Our health. That's a big factor.

Charles: That's fantastic.

Ron: We have done... Yeah. Well, we stay healthy. We keep our exercise up and eat good most of the time.

Darlene: Yeah. I will say, though, the toughest part is where we live in this retirement community, every day is a weekend. So, there's things to do, and celebrations, and get together. So, eating and drinking is very different from what we used to do. So, we have to be very careful.

Charles: So, yeah, it sounds like you guys are keeping active with golf and tennis. That's great. Do you guys have any plans for a trip coming up?

Darlene: Well, a couple of things. Since we got the motor home, we're gonna do a cross-country trip two months, one month going to the East Coast and one month coming back. And then we are planning another trip back to Europe. It's my mom's 85th birthday. So, we let her pick wherever she wanted to do. So, we're going to go and do a cruise from Venice to Greece.

Charles: That sounds amazing.

Darlene: Yes. Actually, my parents are kind of a role model for us in...at their age, we want to be just like them. They travel all over the place, they're healthy. So, that's our goal.

Charles: Sounds remarkable. So, what is your favorite part about retirement? You mentioned not having an alarm clock. You mentioned flexibility and nobody telling you necessarily what to do.

Darlene: Oh gosh. For me, I think it's having that flexibility, that luxury to do, if you get up and you decide you wanna go do something that day or not do anything, I mean, you have more options. And, I mean, we still meet our commitments, you know, our volunteer work or our... But we haven't filled our life so full that we also don't have that flexibility.

Charles: Right. You mentioned you had pretty much everything planned out and then had to become more flexible. Makes sense. Is there anything that you're not enjoying as much in retirement?

Darlene: The only thing I can think of is not having the money we used to. But from a priority perspective, I'm fine.

Charles: Finances are usually the big hindrance. I understand that. What surprised you about your retirement? What didn't you expect when you went into this, that either surprised you positively or negatively?

Darlene: Oh, gosh, surprise? My only surprise was I originally thought, oh gosh, now I'm gonna be able to play golf three, four times a week. And now I'm like, well, once or twice is fine, because now I have these other interests that I didn't realize I had.

Charles: Okay. Ron, anything that snuck up on you?

Ron: Well, for me, I love helping people. You know, over the years, I was really good with working with my hands. And I've realized that it's been very nice to be able to basically give back now. So, I've been able to help people in the community. And because I really enjoy golf, I work with a First Tee program out of the San Joaquin area, which is still up here in the Sierra Foothills. But being able to have the opportunity to work with kids and to help them learn life skills and to be, to the point, where I have the flexibility to devote the time to them instead of being distracted. Because I know when you're working... And like I said, you know, basically, to be able to take a whole Saturday and say, I'm gonna devote this to my kids. You know, as you're working, you're looking at it going, "Yeah, God, that's a big timeframe to be able to give to somebody." So, for me, I think being able to give back has been a very, you know, big, beneficial thing for me.

Charles: And you mentioned First Tee, that's a golf program for kids?

Ron: Yes, it is. It runs from the... So, the age bracket is from 6 to 17. So, I get to see... In fact, some of the kids I've actually seen them get up to the high school level now. So, it's been pretty fun to be able to watch that.

Charles: That's great. That's great. So, is there any advice for anybody who might be retiring in the near future? You mentioned putting money away, don't squander it in your 20s and 30s, and be open to flexibility. Is there anything else that you might want them to know?

Darlene: I mean, besides those two things is don't sweat to the little stuff, as people say. Ron mentioned earlier, we're so much more relaxed now. It took me a year to realize that my shoulders didn't belong up at my ears. And once we got through that, your priorities change. What was important to you before, it may change drastically after you retire, just be ready for...you know, and kind of go with the flow.

Charles: Take time for a little self-care.

Ron: Yeah, for younger people, I think that, to be able to work with your....you know, get the self-confidence so that when you do decide to pull, you know, basically, it's time to retire, having confidence all through, you know, decisions that you've made as a young person, will definitely help as you retire. Because if you're living in fear while you're working, it's gonna be kind of tough to retire.

Darlene: Retirement's not the last phase, there's phases of retirement. So, we are now going through another major change in retirement, but it's exciting.

Charles: Fantastic.

Ron: Yeah, I think, for me, you know, besides the money, I think a big, big factor for getting close to retirement is to stay healthy. Obviously, eating right. You know, and it is funny as you retire, you start reading more, like the art magazines. And actually, now we're starting to read about the motor home life and all of those... You know, the people who blog in those are all saying, "Stay up with your eating habits and your exercise." So, it's obviously important to them as they're traveling too.

Charles: So, you mentioned that you had your early retirement, which is a different kind of retirement than what you are in now. So, what made you decide to change up how you were living your life in retirement?

Ron: So, probably the big thing that happened to us is, when Darlene retired, because I'd been retired for like three years. And then when she retired, we celebrated and did a two-month cross-country trip. And after we did that, we realized that traveling, especially traveling in the United States was a big deal to us. We didn't realize how much was available to a... You know, when you're kind of born and raised in California, you don't migrate too much to other states. So, you know, living in a beautiful state, it's kind of hard to move around. But we realized that the United States as a whole is just such a beautiful country. So, we decided that that was a big deal for us. So, we decided we wanted to do it in style. So, we bought the motor home, and now we're gonna reduce our footprint a little bit, just so we have... When we decided to go traveling for three weeks or a month, we just wanted to be able to lock the door and not have to worry about anything at home.

So, that cross-country trip, I think, made a big deal to us. And because of Darlene's parents, because they travel so much, we decided, having a big home and not having the opportunity to move around the country, I think was a big deal to us. So, we decided that, for both of us, producing the footprint and moving on, was a big deal.

Charles: Thanks so much for listening to the show this week. You could subscribe to our program at iTunes or on our website at allworthfinancial.com. If you have a retirement story you'd like to share, you can also write us at theartofretirement@allworthfinancial.com. I'm Charles Parker. And you've been listening to "The Art of Retirement" podcast from Allworth financial.

Man: This podcast has been brought to you by Allworth Financial, a registered investment advisory firm with the Securities and Exchange Commission.